I originally posted this on Spawn's page in response to his comment that there are 1800 some odd members, but only 20-30 customers who actually comment regularly. The whole response didn't fit there, so I decided to bring it here to get some discussion going. I've also added a couple things.
My opinion is that people find this site because its very well positioned on Google for any searches for strip clubs or reviews. I think that most people join the site thinking its a social site where they'll get to interact with dancers, get info and discounts and all that. But the reality is that there are only a handful of actual customers posting as opposed to folks who are either directly or indirectly employed by clubs (DJs, managers, regulars who post RTRC's, etc....). And even fewer dancers, We have 127 dancer members and maybe 10 who post anything and maybe 5 who actually do more than just post their work schedule and actually interact with customers or post in discussions.
I'd guess the process with most new members is the same:
1) They join and within a day or two get the obligatory friend requests from the same 10-15 people who ask every single member to be their friend.
2) They try to hit on a girl or two, including the handful who sent friend requests. But they also hit up the girls who are on here with hot photos, but never really post. The inactive ones never respond and the active ones usually respond, at least initially, by being pleasant, but focusing on getting the member to come into the club to see them. This is NOT a shot at the dancers, btw, this is mainly a marketing/networking site for them and it goes without saying that they will use it that way and that no one is expecting them to respond immediately with friendship/dating from an initial zbone post. But some of these new members think it'll be like facebook where you can go looking for friends/dates and they get discouraged when it doesn't happen.
3) They see the discussions, but they're the same few people over and over having discussions which have no real relevance to the average person. They're filled with inside references and in jokes and for someone who just wants to hear about which girls and clubs are fun, its off putting. Plus, the fact is that there are usually only one or two discussions going at once.
4) Seeing that the site really doesn't get you discounts or connections at the clubs or with the dancers for the most part, they fade into the background and don't participate. Now we may know that there are advantages to be had by interacting here, but it usually takes work on the part of the customer to get there and most guys won't do that.
That's probably pretty close to the experience that most customers have on this site. i'm not sure how that can be changed and honestly, it may not be able to be changed. This site has always been a niche site with a very small active contingent. It's like 3 months in with the new format and its essentially fallen back into the same patterns as the old site, except there are a couple more dancers occassionally posting comments and interacting with a small group of people they know or current/former customers. Since it can never be what it pretends to be (a Facebook for strip clubs), it will probably always be the same thing it is now.
Spawn said:
Tillrules - Thank You and I think you hit the nail on the head!
No problem. Knowing what I've said is reasonably true, do you believe there is a way to improve newer member involvement beyond the same few folks?
BigBoyCaprice said:
I have noticed that with the new layout the veteran PLs have gone mum.... The old zbone was bare-bones basic but was ideal for chit chat and info sharing. I miss those old days. The thing is, with this new layout it's hard to navigate to where the info is...sometimes it's in the forums, sometimes it's in the club subpage, and sometimes it's just within member profile comments.
That is also an issue, especially with the RTRC, pic updates and occasional chit chat pushing things down the main page consistently. It might be easier to separate info more, like having roll calls in their own completely separate area and reserving the club pages for conversation. But it still doesn't seem to be so confusing that people wouldn't be able to find stuff.
As to the veterans, i've said before that the advent of the dancers has slowed the flow of info as most people don't want to offend them. Plus, the change over to a facebook model has changed the dynamic of the board a bit, which is nice in many ways and encourages new members, but it does lose some of the fun it used to have.
BigBoyCaprice said:
True, the facebook style layout favors dancers with business savvy who know that having profile pics and occassionally joining the banter would help their income. But the veteran PL's have censored themselves for fear of being outted. It's a give and take I suppose...
Yeah, it does. I think the fear is being so honest will offend the dancers and then they'll participate even less than they do now as opposed to being outed. Plus, there is the element of losing the club-ish feel of the old boards which keeps some folks quieter. I do miss some of the stuff from the old board though (I was a long time lurker there).
Spawn said:
There is a place for Roll Calls, unfortunately there are a handful of DJ's and managers that just absolutely will NOT post in the right place. I always go to the club page on the right there it says plain and simple Discussions & RTRC. On our Home or Main page on the right side it says "RECENT Discussions" All RTRC's should be there. It's real simple. This has been the frustrating task of making people (PL's) post in the right place, so it makes it frustrating for PL's like you. As for the dynamics, yes it does invite new people which is nice. On the old Zbone board it was the same 10-15 PL's with 10 handles each except for Benn, Louis, Skylapper, Tai-Pan and ofcourse MR. Z to name a few. It was also WAAAY to easy to hide behind those names and INSULT, SLANDER and just be 100% Grade A A-Holes with Ha Ha it's funny! The board is designed for info, tongue and cheek humor, fun pics and intel on clubs, dancers as well as some PL's . Don't forget Zbone 1.0 was around for more than 20 years, Zbone 2.0 is in it's 6th month, after the 1st year I'm sure there will be some good hard looks on what works and doesn't work!
I think changing the posting habits will have to be done from the site side, not the member side. You hate to have too many rules on a site like this, but at the end of the day, the club employees who are posting are getting a benefit from it. If they want to continue the benefit, they have to follow the rules.
While I agree that there was occasionally malicious posting disguised as humor on the old board, it was also a lot of non-malicious fun and more intel being passed there. I think the new model has made it much more of a business board first, both for dancers and clubs. Like I said in the original post, there are very few active posters here who are not either dancers, club employees or club affiliated regulars.
Whether its getting new members is a different discussion and really the crux of our original discussion. We have a whole lot of names, but its still the same people who do all the talking and posting. But like you said, the site has only been around a few months (about 4 fully open) and improvements can be made.
Ronin said:
I think there are several reasons. Some just don't think they have anything new to say. Someone else already made the point so why repeat it again. Some just don't want to bother. They are here to check RTRC and get some free intel and that's it. Some just don't think anything good comes of posting. A lot of my friends fall into this category. Everytime I post I get emails, texts and calls from my buddies about my posts. Some don't want to be discovered by their favs. It is hard to post and not be found out. Some feel like they have spent a lot of money gathering intel and info. Why should they share it with others for free. After all other guys are competition. I once wrote a glowing review about a dancer who had changed her ways and gotten so much better. I couldn't get a dance for weeks. She was always busy. I was happy for her but also I kind of felt like an idiot. Some just really liked the old bulletin board format and were used to it and now find this new format difficult. ( I am not one of them, I am glad Z changed to new format ).
Those are all pretty valid points, especially the ones about dancers. No one wants to lose their hidden gem or favorite to overwhelming competition. Plus, there is the fear of discovery, since as I've always maintained, this is not a site which is viewed positively by most dancers.
I'm split on the new format. I like the forums and the layout, but it has lost some charm and the level of intel has gone down a little since the move to the social media model. The site has really been repurposed as an advertising site for clubs and dancers instead of a site for customers to share info and experiences.
Tillrules said:
this is not a site which is viewed positively by most dancers.
I don't think it's the site which is viewed positively or negatively by most dancers. It's the comments or messages PL's post, or the PL's that dancers dance with that dancers view positively or negatively.
Manual said:Tillrules said:this is not a site which is viewed positively by most dancers.I don't think it's the site which is viewed positively or negatively by most dancers. It's the comments or messages PL's post, or the PL's that dancers dance with that dancers view positively or negatively.
Manual said:Why are there so many members here, but so few active ones?
Z2 and Z1 are just like any community website. The majority are lurkers or inactive.
FWIW, I lurked a few years before becoming an active poster on Z1.
Tillrules said:
but I think the overall impression is that this is a negative place.
Any dancers care to comment on this?
I don't see as much dancer bashing on Z2 than Z1. There might be a bad dancer review but that doesn't mean it is a negative place.
cASSandra said:
Ok there were way too many reply posts to read, so I'm just responding to Manuel's original thread. Personally, I LIKE the cult feeling of Zbone. When a customer tells me he is from Zbone, even if he doesn't give me his handle, I feel like I do when I meet someone from my hometown or with the same zodiac sign as me. It's kind of fun! I can't speak from a customer's perspective, but from a dancer's perspective I LOVE this site! I've gotten quite a few really cool customers from posting on here. Even guys who don't consider me their "type" have come & spent a very generous amount of money just because I take the time to talk to them. Also in person I don't have any game so this gives me another platform to approach customers that I wouldn't approach in the club. I don't think that guys tone are nicer on z2 because they know the girls are reading now... I mean, technically, the customers on here are still all anonymous unless they choose to out themselves to someone at the club. I talk to Manuel and Benn quite a bit on here, I've met both of them in the club, but I still can't match their handles to a face. Plus... I've been reading Zbone for a long time before I made an account. A LOT of dancers read this board, whether they post or not. It's been that way for a long time. We have always been reading, but we haven't always been posting. It's not like guys are afraid they might hurt our feelings, because things were posted about me before I was a member that pissed me off. Maybe guys are just afraid we might actually respond now. However I do recall a few times on z1 where dancers confronted their negative reviews (specifically Lola & Jenna). Maybe you guys just got soft on us!?
[LouASS]-->I'm not afraid if dancers confront my post or in person and WILL STILL TELL IT LIKE IT IS whether they like it or not. I gain nothing out of this whether I'm giving a positive or negative review on a dancer or the club. Yeah it was me that Jenna(dvnh dancer) confronted on my negative post about her. It wasn't much of a big deal with what I said about her, But she sure showed her true colors for all the PL's to see with her attacks at me being a PL which I found hilarious, LOL.
I'm sure many PL's found it very entertaining to read as well, And yeah she knows who I am behind this handle as it was a no brainer given it was a slow night when I made a review about the club & her a day later.
I was going to send her a private message Once I notice she joined Zbone 2.0, that I don't hold any grudge towards her, But She is still bitter to this day(like a little girl) with me as she has her profile page blocking me off ha,ha, LOL so I can't send her that message. Same goes for that 50+-year old hag Amber Lynn as she's got me blocked off too. Not sure what the hell I did to her, But oh well.
